March 9, 2015 – Visit with Bob Chard at Tap Rock Restaurant 

Present – Jim and Rene Ford, Joe and Leta Neiderheiser, Kelly and Bernita Rarey.
Visitor – Glenn Campbell

Bob Chard interview 

Some historic roads Bob Chard surveyed:  
Kerby to Jacksonville,  through Murphy, to County Rock Pit #3.
New Hope Road to 1854 rock Quarry, New Hope Rd is one of the oldest roads in our county.  1854 New 	Hope Road is the same as it is now
North Applegate Road
Stage Road: Fish Hatchery Rd, Chaney Creek, Moon Mt. Road, Old Stage Road are all historic

Topographical maps:
Was the brass Cap on top of --------Mt. used for creating topographical mapping?
Chard – Topographical maps were first created in the 1920’s and not before.

Jims’s questions:
1.	Was the 1874 survey made on a road that existed prior to the survey or was it made to construct a new road?
Chard – The 1874 survey followed the following existing roads:  Warner Road, Railroad Avenue in Wolf Creek,  Highland Avenue.  These are all current roads laying on the Applegate Trail.  All other areas were being surveyed to build a new improved road.  The goal was to update the existing N/S roads by adding new sections to create a more modern and convenient road for transportation.

Other discussion by the group:  
The “1060 section of road at Mt. Section: 
	ODOT’s plans to create a passing lane in the northern direction would have an impact on the “1060”section of Applegate Trail.  ODOT did not recognize any historical roads in this area.  We used Bob Chard’s information on the 1874 Road to influence ODOT to preserve the’1060 feet of historic roads in Mt. Sexton.  ODOT was very generous to make adjustments to their plans to satisfy our concerns.  ODOT invited an Archeologist and our Hugo group invited an OCTA archeologist for a Field Trips with us to evaluate the area.  
	ODOT had planned a large catch basin for catching water which they redesigned to accommodate our desire not to lose any of the “1060” portion of the historical roads, of which the last  300 foot section branching off the layered historical roads to be most pristine portion of the Applegate Trail.  
	Although ODOT never eknoledaged our Historic Roads and Applegate Trail in writing, they were very careful not to disturb our area of concern.  They were very cooperative.  They probably didn’t want the ‘1060 to become an environmental liability 
	The 1940 (Hwy 99) I-5 Strip map is very detailed including Collins telegraph line and old Roads.	
Chard:  The State Highway Department was created in 1917 and in 1923 improvements were made.

2.	If there was a pre-existing road before 1874, when was it made?
Chard:  From Wolf Creek the 1874 survey was made to construct road improvements along an existing road.  The 1874 Survey from the Douglas County line and followed Warner Road, Railroad Avenue, “left road” near the top to use the Applegate Trail, and “off road” to Highland Ave.   With similar uses of existing  roads plus the addition of new roads on to the Jackson County Line along 6th Street in Grants Pass.
	The 1874 surveyed road is not tied into much of anything.  Creeks and ridge lines and at the south end - Josephine County/Jackson County line 1/16 corner of Section 27.  In order for the survey to fit the current map Chand had to do a lot of adjustment.
	Bob Chard no longer has a mapping program, so he is not able to plot the 1911 road.  Chad wonders what mapping program we use – Terrain Navigator Pro.  This program can be purchased through OCTA at a discount.  Bob Chard talked to Mike Walker some years ago so, he is no longer up to date on our current projects.

Discussion:
Jim informs everyone that the 1911 survey has lots of flaws, such as at the north end having a “dog leg” to the west.  The Oregon California Road mentioned in the 1911 survey may reflect the 1874 surveyed road.
	The “spaghetti roads” in aerial photos are a mystery we are trying to solve as well as the location of the iron pipe placed in the junction of the Oregon California Wagon Road and the 1911 Road (Section 26/27).
	The Oxbow loop of the Applegate Trail, Chard was not aware of.  And we explained our finding of how we believe the servers error in flipping it around, East to West.  JA 13 is the GLO location which was mapped about 1 mile west and created the “Oxbow”.  This error has been perpetuated through history on some maps and is now a ledgend.  Roger Roberts surveyor from Jackson County reviewed our findings and agreed with our conclusion.
	On the 1854 GLO map, the artist draws in a mountain which the Oxbow goes around, however there is no mountain there on the ground.

Joe – reviews the Myrtle Creek Applegate Trail portion now in the process of being purchased.  The City of Myrtle Creek may donate $10,000, the Cow Creek Indian Tribe may donate $10,000, the Nature Conservancy and the rest may be donated privately.   There is no price tag on this property.  What does this mean?
	It is an excellent portion of trail with wheel scars on a narrow rocked in area.  The location was dictated because of cliffs directly up from the river with the ledge being the only place to pass through.  
Undesirable qualities of the property for home building and a power line and a water line.   The Applegate Trail can be traced through the town and out to the freeway.  We are working with the National Park System to place signage on this trail trace.

Question 3:  Does the 1874 survey reflect the Military Road?
Chard:  Has not seen any reference to the Military Road in Josephine County.  During World War II, highway 99 east called the Military Road.

Discussion:
Early military contracts were made and Federal money was allocated for the building of a Military Road in 1854-55.  Jesse Applegate’s Military Road survey of 1853 was to improve the roads through “the Hills” and not on the flats from Myrtle Creek to Fort Stewart (18530 - in the south.  There is no Oxbow on his map. 
Chard:  David Sexton helped surveyor Watts in the 1874 survey and went by Sexton’s house.
	In Sunny Valley Harkness’ Stable was located near JA17B.  Roger Russell has found horse shoes in an area just west of the bridge and north of the creek.
	Some members believe the Applegate Trail crossed diagonal across the section line because the surveyors record 60 foot length.  The Crowley girl is not buried at the current location, because a utility tie down line is anchored in the grave.  The grave is recorded as being in the center of the road.  Some believe the Applegate Trail crossed the creek east of the bridge and went North West.
	The 1874 survey shows the road swinging east of the current Sunny Valley Loop Road and joining the Road to Umpqua  and over the pass.  Bob Black has the GLO points and the 1874 survey.
	Leta wonders where the name of Wood Pile Creek as a name for Grave Creek came from.  The Daughters of the American Revolution would like to place signage at the Museum, but would like to know the reference for that name.  On current signage at the bridge mentions Wood Pile Creek name.  Chard recommends checking with the Public Works Department.  Gary Wallace was the surveyor at that time and retired in 2002.  Twogood and Arkness do not mention this name in the Twogood  book.

Question 4:  What were the dates of construction for the current Hugo Road, Oxyoke Road and Monument Drive?  
Chard:  The 1874 survey mentions the following roads:  Warner Rd, Rail Road Ave, Highland Ave,  Ox Yolk Road and Monument Dr.as Applegate Trail (newly named) as new roads created in 1874.  Surveyors did not know how to survey curves in 1874.  The road builders built where they felt it was best for a road.  From Oxyolk Road to the Applegate Trail (old road) and then to Monument Road and Highland.  About 60% to 70% of the 1874 road new road and not on the Applegate Trail.
	The 1874 road took 2 weeks to survey.  The underbrush must have been thin from fire and would explain why long distances are recorded 1,000 to 2,000 feet, or in the Maple Creek area 600 to 700 feet indicating the ground cover was thin.  Mentioned in 1864 diaries is the undercover was burned off.  And in 1898 soot and ashes were reported by surveyors indicating a recent fire.  Hyde and Lake noted ashes in 1854. 
	The 1911 road surveyed length were only 60 to 70 feet short lengths indicating either more brush or curved terrain.  The survey was started at the summit and went south to Buck’s flats cabin to the 1/16 corner S 51 36” E 150.9 Feet and marked with an iron pipe.  Then starting at the summit, working north and measuring 1,100 feet and marking the location with an iron pipe in the middle of the road and proceeded north.  Chard thought it was very odd to start at the summit and work south then starting at the summit measure 1,100 feet mark the location and proceed northward.  
	All agree, there must have been a straight shot of visability from the summit north for 1,100 feet in 1874.  
	The 1874 survey verifies the JA15 and JA16 locations.

Question 5:  The 1874 survey connected to an existing Road (survey) on the north boundary with Douglas County.  Was there a similar survey that also connected with a road in Jackson County?  Do you know of a survey of this road in Jackson County?  Is todays Scenic Drive would be part of this road in the 1870’s?  
Chard:  You will have to check with Jackson County Records on that.

 Discussion:
	The Applegate Trail went from the Jackson County/Josephine County Line and crossed at the Granite Hill Road Pass.  Because Stage Coaches need a more gentle slope than the steeper grade on Granite Hill Road a new route over Merlin Hill was built in 1874. The current Scenic Drive became the new road and crossed over Merlin Hill. The Grants Pass Quadrangle Map of 1908 demonstrates this improvement for a new Stage Coach Road.  The book, “Knights of the Whip” reports this Stage Road improvement over Merlin Hill.
  	The 1870’s was a push to get roads out of the mud.

Chard has the Feb 9th to Feb 13th Road Reviewers Book #1.  Survayors took 4 days to survey the 1874 road!  Rogue River and south to New Hope Road.  To book # 12 Mills, Knight, Watts.  

Chard took the 1874 survey and by fixating it to creeks and ridge tops and by shrinking, expanding and rotating  the survey was able to place it on a map.  The survey was not tied to anything but the county line to the north and the county line to the south.

Question 6:  What information is contained in the two filing cabinets in the Josephine County Surveyors Office?  How far back in time does it go? 1872.

Bob Chard brought his maps which includes all roads built after 1872.  Joe was able to copy portions of the maps for members.
We appreciate Bob Chard stepping out of retirement to visit with our group and answer question we have and for adding information to our limited understanding of surveying and of historical surveys.  Kelly Rarey and Glenn Campbell enjoyed talking with Bob and the rest enjoyed getting to know Bob.

Submitted by Rene Ford